Kevin Roose has written a book about the rise of AI, and he did it without letting machines do the heavy lifting. The book, The AGI Chronicles, tells the story of three generative AI leaders — OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google — through more than 150 interviews Roose conducted with insiders. Roose, a longtime tech journalist who most recently served as a columnist and podcast host for The New York Times, compiled the work into what he hopes becomes a historical document.
Now Roose is moving on from the Times. He and Casey Newton, his former cohost on the Times’ Hard Fork podcast, have launched a new media company called Machine Gods Media. The podcast, also called Machine Gods, comes with a distribution deal with NPR.
The Two Men Who Talk About AI
Roose’s announcement of the departure from the Times included a description of his vision. He wants to “take AI progress seriously, is clear-eyed about the capabilities and risks of powerful AI systems, and tries to empower and entertain people in the face of radical uncertainty.”
He told Katie Drummond, a writer, that the gap in AI coverage is simple. “We just feel like it was high time that two men had a place to talk about AI.”
“I’ve been saying this for years. I want more men talking about tech,” Roose added.
The criticism he hears from friends who don’t follow tech closely is that AI is fleeting and trivial, and it will all return to normal soon. On the other side, there is pure hype: the endless stream of headlines about how Claude can supercharge your enterprise SaaS business.
“We both thought there’s a large gap in the middle for what Casey calls AI realism,” Roose said. That means taking AI seriously, acknowledging its power and danger, demystifying it without boosterism, and having a good time doing it.
The NPR Deal
The show is being published in partnership with NPR. Roose explained that the deal is a distribution partnership rather than a full acquisition, which means the duo will still have operating distance.
“We liked the fact that they have a broad independent reach and mandate,” Roose said. “We liked the fact that they’re going to let us own the show and make the creative decisions.”
The reach of radio, especially public radio, is still quite large. Roose and Newton had the Hard Fork for four years, building a decent-size audience, but the Times owned that show and owned the feed. With NPR, the distribution is wider.
“We don’t just want to have the opt-in, self-selected tech audience listen to us,” Roose said. “Maybe that’s going to be someone who works in policy, or maybe that’s going to be someone who is involved in local government. Maybe that’s going to be someone who has a very different point of view on AI.”
The Money Question
A Bloomberg report recently said Roose and Newton were fielding offers of up to $5 million for the show. Roose addressed the figure directly.
“It’s not $5 million,” he said. “So much more, Katie.”
He went on to explain that they could have gotten more money elsewhere. When he heard NPR, he thought, “There’s no way NPR’s giving those guys $5 million,” with all due respect to NPR.
Public radio is not traditionally where people go to get rich in media. Roose and Newton loved their new chief content officer, Nadine Zylstra, calling her “a total force of nature.” They are very excited to work with her.
“We thought they had a lot of things to offer us beyond money,” Roose said. “Like their distribution on radio.”
The Bloodbath and the Drama
The AGI Chronicles covers the recent history of generative AI, told through the stories of OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google.
The book is an attempt to capture the people and institutions, the bloodbath and the drama, that brought Silicon Valley to where it is today. Roose hopes it becomes something of a historical document.
The story starts with the release of ChatGPT in late 2022. OpenAI released the first consumer version of the tool to much fanfare, and it ultimately reached over 100 million downloads within a few short months.
But the story stretches back decades. As WIRED readers know, the story of artificial intelligence goes back far beyond that moment.
The work informing today’s generative AI products, from chatbots to agents and beyond, has been more than a decade — of blood, sweat, tears, and furious rivalries — in the making.
The Talent Problem
Roose also touched on a broader issue in traditional media. He argued that traditional media companies have a talent problem.
The show aims to bridge the gap between hype and skepticism. Roose and Newton want to be clear-eyed about the capabilities and risks of powerful AI systems, while also entertaining listeners.
“We can help people understand that and demystify this area without slipping into boosterism,” Roose said. “And that you can also have a good time while you do it.”
The Case for Realism
Roose’s approach to AI coverage is rooted in realism. He wants to take AI seriously, acknowledge its power and danger, and demystify it.
The show is designed to appeal to a broader audience than the typical tech podcast. Roose and Newton want people in policy, local government, and different points of view on AI to tune in.
The partnership with NPR gives them that reach. Radio is still a big platform, and NPR has a mandate to distribute independently.
Key Facts Box
- Book: The AGI Chronicles, by Kevin Roose
- Interviews: More than 150 conducted by Roose with AI insiders
- Podcast: Machine Gods, distributed via NPR
- Former show: Hard Fork, hosted with Casey Newton at The New York Times
- Bloomberg report: Offers of up to $5 million for the show
- ChatGPT: Over 100 million downloads within a few short months
- NPR partnership: Distribution deal, not a full acquisition
Roose’s joke about wanting more men to talk about tech is a small moment, but it captures the spirit of the whole project. He is serious about AI, skeptical of hype, and unafraid of controversy.
The show is a chance to reach a broader audience. Roose and Newton want to be the voices of AI realism, taking the technology seriously while avoiding boosterism.
The book, meanwhile, stands as a record of the recent past.
Whether the audience agrees remains to be seen.
Source material: “Kevin Roose Didn’t Use AI to Write His Book About AI,” WIRED.
Get the Notebook.
The day's best stories and every fresh verdict, in plain English, in your inbox by seven. One email a day, no more.