French President Emmanuel Macron sat down with ABC News’ David Muir for an exclusive interview, and the transcript reads like a master class in diplomatic nonchalance. The conversation covered everything from the Strait of Hormuz to Trump’s proposed Triumphal Arch, with Macron consistently defending his country’s interests while politely dismissing Trump’s complaints and absurdities.
Opening the Strait
The main objective of Macron’s meeting with President Donald Trump on Monday was “to find the right deal in order to open” the Strait of Hormuz, Macron said. The strait has become a flashpoint in the escalating global energy crisis, driving up the price of gas, diesel, and jet fuel worldwide.
Macron acknowledged that the situation was underestimated. “The Iranian regime discovered they had this card in their hands,” he said, noting that the strait “was probably underestimated, and today we have to fix this issue.”
When Muir asked whether France would offer its military to help reopen the strait, Macron hedged. “I don’t want to engage in a confrontation with any country, but we are ready to be more engaged in order to protect some capacities in order to make this transit possible, yes,” he replied.
The War in Question
Macron was blunt about the decision to go to war. “Having a regime change by bombing a country is not something I think feasible,” he said. He added, “And for me, it’s not a good option, because it doesn’t work. And we did this mistake several times in the past decades.”
He also pushed back on Trump’s complaint that the U.S. is spending hundreds of billions of dollars while European allies are not there for him. “France respects the U.S. and considers itself a ‘good ally,'” Macron said. But he made clear that the U.S. should have consulted before launching a war. “But when you want to engage people, you strategize with them, and you ask them before launching a war, and we decided not to join this war because we considered, and I still consider, it was not the right option.”
Putin and the Triumphal Arch
Macron was unequivocal about his disbelief in Russian President Vladimir Putin. “No,” he responded when asked whether he believed Putin when he said Russia has “no aggressive intentions.” “I don’t buy when President Putin say years ago he wanted peace and make peace. This is not true. And I don’t buy when he say he doesn’t — he’s not aggressive with — with Europeans. This is not true.”
Macron told Muir he had a “very good discussion” with Trump regarding Russia’s war in Ukraine while in New York this week. His conviction was that “your president has a fair assessment now of the situation, that Russia is not delivering what they wanted, that Ukraine is resisting with a lot of bravery and innovation, and that we have to help them.”
On his relationship with Trump, Macron said they have a “very good” relationship, even when they disagree. “We have always been extremely frank to each other,” he said. He noted that Ukraine is an area where he has been able to “convince” Trump. “I think on Ukraine we worked very hard, a few of us,” he said. “I hope we change his mind. And the fact that he got the conviction that Russia was overrated.”
The Triumphal Arch
Trump has proposed building a “Triumphal Arch” in Washington, inspired by the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. “He says it’s gonna be like the one in Paris, but it’ll blow it away,” Muir said.
Macron had seen pictures of the proposed arch and had discussed the Arc de Triomphe with Trump “several times.” When Muir pressed, “Is it gonna blow it away?” the answer was firm. “No,” Macron said. “Paris will remain Paris and the Arc de Triomphe remain the Arc de Triomphe…These monuments are bigger than ourselves.”
AI and the Map Post
Macron took Trump’s dismissal of AI fears as a “hoax” seriously. He said he takes concerns that AI could pose a significant threat to humanity “very seriously.”
“This is why we have to make it totally clear and to have visibility, cooperation, and build new regulation on these consequences,” he said, while calling for a global discussion on the rapidly developing technology.
He argued for a distinction between pausing frontier models and addressing misuse. “It should not be just the decision of the U.S. government,” he said. “It’s a necessity to have a proper discussion between [the] U.S., China, Europe, and the rest of the world…to deal with AI excesses and with AI risks for our economies and national securities.”
Trump posted a map on social media showing the U.S. flag sprawling across North America, including French territories off the coast of Canada. When Muir asked whether Macron told Trump he thought it was strange, the answer was direct. “Yes, several times,” Macron said.
Muir asked whether the map raised broader questions about the current situation. “Honestly, look at the situation today … We have a war in Ukraine which is existential for the European security. We have war in the Middle East … We have AI and all this technological race to, not to fix, but to coordinate and make sure that there is not a race to the worst between China and the U.S … .We have sufficient topics to be fixed. Let’s not create new conflicts and new tensions,” Macron said.
Key Facts Box
- Strait of Hormuz: Macron said it was “probably underestimated” and needs fixing
- Ukraine: Macron said Trump now has a “fair assessment” of the situation
- AI: Macron called for a global discussion on AI risks
- Triumphal Arch: Macron said “Paris will remain Paris”
The interview shows a French president comfortable in the spotlight, willing to defend his country’s position while remaining polite. The Triumphal Arch exchange redirected the conversation to the enduring nature of monuments.
The Hormuz strait is a harder problem. Macron admitted the situation was underestimated, but he offered no commitment beyond protecting transit capacity. On the war in question, he was direct about the mistake. On Putin, he was dismissive. On the map, he was patient. On AI, he was urgent.
Source material: “Macron tells ABC News' David Muir: 'Hormuz Strait was probably underestimated',” ABC13 Houston.
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