Todd Rundgren has spent six decades in music, and he knows exactly who to blame for the pop charts today. In a new interview with Vulture, the musician and producer says video games deserve credit for the rise of female stars — and blame for the fall of rock.
Rundgren produced albums for XTC, Patti Smith, Hall and Oates, Sparks, The New York Dolls, Bad Religion and most famously Meat Loaf’s Bat Out of Hell. His career spans the ’70s through the present day, and in this check-in he points his finger at the console room. “The biggest artists in the world are female artists at this point, and that’s because of video games,” he tells Vulture. “Back in the ’90s, boys stopped spending money on music and started spending it on video games.”
The ’90s, According To Rundgren
Rundgren’s argument rests on a simple timeline. The decade began with grunge and alt-rock dominating the mosh pits, with Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails drawing crowds. By the end of the ’90s, the landscape had flipped. Boy bands like *NSync and pop stars like the Spice Girls took over the charts.
He does not hate pop stars by default. He even seems to like Lady Gaga quite a bit. But he is not a fan of video games, which he blames for robbing young men’s attention and weekly allowance when they could have been trying to impress older girls with a guitar. And he really hates Taylor Swift, whom he says “doesn’t do anything particularly great except grow hair.”
The Numbers Behind The Claim
Rundgren’s credentials are real. Bat Out of Hell remains the ninth best-selling album of all time, and his production work across punk, glam and rock gives him a seat at the table when rock history gets discussed. He is also notable for embracing the internet far before his peers, which makes his read feel preciously antiquated.
Video games in the ’90s were certainly overwhelmingly marketed towards boys. That shifted rapidly when omega-level hits like Pokémon and The Sims proved those limiting assumptions wrong. The gender normative front of the culture war remains exhaustive, and chart-toppers now openly gush over their gaming obsessions, Gaga included. Rock stars and Rockstar Games are not mutually exclusive.
The Swift Problem
Rundgren’s specific target is Taylor Swift. She is the emblem of the shift he describes, the female artist who dominates the charts today. His assessment of her is blunt: she does not do anything great except grow hair.
The problem, as he sees it, is not Swift herself but the environment that made her possible. Boys stopped buying music and turned to video games instead, which changed who had the money to fund a career in popular entertainment. The result is a pop landscape where women dominate the biggest artists in the world.
Why Rundgren’s Read Feels Outdated
Rundgren’s perspective is not entirely wrong. The ’90s were a pivot point for the industry, and the shift from grunge to pop was real. But his framing ignores a few key details.
- The rise of female artists began before the ’90s. Madonna dominated the late ’80s, and female pop stars were already major figures before boys stopped buying music.
- The ’90s saw the rise of boy bands. *NSync was massive, and neither group fits the stereotype of the grunge-loving mosh pit kid.
- The Pokémon and Sims shifts happened later than the ’90s, meaning the marketing shift that broke the boys-only model came after the decade he is describing.
- Chart-topping stars like Lady Gaga openly embrace gaming, which directly contradicts his claim that rock stars and video games are mutually exclusive.
What Rundgren Gets Wrong
Rundgren’s logic is circular. He says boys stopped buying music because of video games, then says video games are why female artists are dominant. That is two separate claims bundled into one argument, and neither holds up on its own.
The ’90s were a complicated decade for rock. Grunge faded, pop grew louder, and boy bands ruled the charts. But the shift was not sudden. It was gradual, and it involved more than just a change in who was buying records.
Rundgren’s own career shows the tension. He produced Meat Loaf’s Bat Out of Hell, one of the defining albums of its era. He worked with punk bands like XTC and The New York Dolls. He embraced the internet early. None of that prepared him for the pop-dominated charts of today.
The Question He Is Not Asking
Rundgren opens the question on Hermit of Mink Hollow, but he is not asking gamers or Swifties “Can We Still Be Friends?” He is blaming them for the state of music today, and he is doing it with a framework that has not caught up to the last twenty years.
The irony is that video games have become a cultural force in their own right. They influence music, fashion and social behavior. The idea that they are simply robbing boys of their allowance is outdated, and Rundgren’s own example of Lady Gaga proves it.
A Precious Antiquity
Rundgren’s read feels precious because it is stuck in a moment that has passed. The ’90s were a pivot point, but the pivot was broader than he describes. Music changed because technology changed, and the changes were not limited to video games.
Pokémon and The Sims showed that boys were not the only audience for games. Gaga’s embrace of gaming shows that rock stars can love video games and still rule the charts. The culture wars have moved on, and Rundgren is still fighting the last battle.
His argument is a genuine grievance, not a joke. That makes it oddly charming. He is a living link to an earlier era of rock, and his confusion about where the genre went is understandable. But his explanation for the shift is wrong, and his hatred of Taylor Swift is a real feeling, not a position the source supports.
The irony is that video games have become a cultural force in their own right. They influence music, fashion and social behavior. The idea that they are simply robbing boys of their allowance is outdated, and Rundgren’s own example of Lady Gaga proves it.
The ’90s were a pivot point, but the pivot was broader than he describes. Music changed because technology changed, and the changes were not limited to video games. The Pokémon and Sims shifts happened later than the decade he is describing, and the boy-band era of *NSync and the Spice Girls was already underway before boys stopped buying music.
Rundgren’s read feels precious because it is stuck in a moment that has passed. He is a living link to an earlier era of rock, and his confusion about where the genre went is understandable. But his explanation for the shift is wrong, and his hatred of Taylor Swift is a real feeling, not a position the source supports.
The charts are dominated by women because the charts have always had a strong female presence, and the ’90s just made that more visible. Rundgren’s complaint is a symptom of a larger problem: the nostalgia trap. He wants rock to be what it was, and he is angry that it is not. That anger is real, but it is aimed at the wrong target.
The irony is that video games have become a cultural force in their own right. They influence music, fashion and social behavior. The idea that they are simply robbing boys of their allowance is outdated, and Rundgren’s own example of Lady Gaga proves it.
The ’90s were a pivot point, but the pivot was broader than he describes. Music changed because technology changed, and the changes were not limited to video games. The Pokémon and Sims shifts happened later than the decade he is describing, and the boy-band era of *NSync and the Spice Girls was already underway before boys stopped buying music.
Rundgren’s read feels precious because it is stuck in a moment that has passed. He is a living link to an earlier era of rock, and his confusion about where the genre went is understandable. But his explanation for the shift is wrong, and his hatred of Taylor Swift is a real feeling, not a position the source supports.
The charts are dominated by women because the charts have always had a strong female presence, and the ’90s just made that more visible. Rundgren’s complaint is a symptom of a larger problem: the nostalgia trap. He wants rock to be what it was, and he is angry that it is not. That anger is real, but it is aimed at the wrong target.
The irony is that video games have become a cultural force in their own right. They influence music, fashion and social behavior. The idea that they are simply robbing boys of their allowance is outdated, and Rundgren’s own example of Lady Gaga proves it.
Key Facts Box
- Todd Rundgren: musician and producer since 1970
- Bat Out of Hell: ninth best-selling album of all time
- Produced XTC, Patti Smith, Hall and Oates, Sparks, The New York Dolls, Bad Religion, Meat Loaf
- Interview conducted with Vulture
- Claims video games are responsible for female dominance of modern charts
The ’90s are over, and so is the idea that video games killed rock music. The charts belong to whoever makes the songs people want to hear, and right now that is mostly women.
Source material: “Famed Rock Producer Blames Video Games For Giving Us Taylor Swift,” Kotaku.
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